RC EVOLUTION - 遙控工房 - 香港RC遙控車討論區

標題: 低重心Subaru調高roll centre分享 [打印本頁]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-12 00:14
標題: 低重心Subaru調高roll centre分享
請看相．

作者: 椰禮 時間: 2008-2-12 00:19
出動到波子tim??

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-12 07:29
the camber angle and wheel 指向性 is so off

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-12 11:42

原帖由 ckwu 於 2008-2-12 07:29 發表

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the camber angle and wheel 指向性 is so off

Off? Did you mean 'loose'?
其實虛位仲少左.

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-12 17:00

原帖由 billy86che 於 2008-2-12 11:42 發表

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Off? Did you mean 'loose'?
其實虛位仲少左.

left and right camber/caster/toe angle is uneven, cornering ability will be unbalance

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-12 17:59

原帖由 ckwu 於 2008-2-12 17:00 發表

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left and right camber/caster/toe angle is uneven, cornering ability will be unbalance

They are all adjustable, like a 1/10 touring car.

[ 本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2008-2-12 18:01 編輯 ]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-13 00:19
Here is how I can adjust the camber and the roll centre. I'm sorry that Caster is fixed (zero).

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-13 05:04
adjustment not equal to correct geormetry
flexibility to adjustment cannot beat precision engineering
but good concept and innovation. I really respect your creativity and craftsmanship on this project. Keep up the good work and take your time to refine the engineering and design maybe even make some money or bless us with this design

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-13 12:08

原帖由 ckwu 於 2008-2-13 05:04 發表

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adjustment not equal to correct geormetry
flexibility to adjustment cannot beat precision engineering
but good concept and innovation. I really respect your creativity and craftsmanship on this pr ...

There was a time you mentioned "off" and then you said "uneven" & "unbalance' and now you speak of "correct geometry". It is difficult to find your focus. In fact, the adjustment of the location of roll centre is to work with different tracks and the original roll centre was wrong due to the simple design of the bearing knuckle. You should have learnt that with your claimed experience in real car mechanics.

You said, "left and right camber/caster/toe angle is uneven". How do you know that if you haven't done any measurement first? (雖然我知道唔係為100%一樣,但係我用尺度過都好準,原裝啲膠都'口脾'得唔準啦.)

[ 本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2008-2-13 13:03 編輯 ]

作者: scalpel 時間: 2008-2-13 13:20
Excellent DIY! And you are using Li battery?

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-13 13:45

原帖由 scalpel 於 2008-2-13 13:20 發表

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Excellent DIY! And you are using Li battery?

Yes, it's lipo.

作者: scalpel 時間: 2008-2-13 13:54

原帖由 billy86che 於 2008-2-13 13:45 發表

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Yes, it's lipo.

How long the Lipo battery last? I mean the play time...

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-13 14:05

原帖由 scalpel 於 2008-2-13 13:54 發表

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How long the Lipo battery last? I mean the play time...

They are about 700mah, 7.4V so with an appropriately tuned motor of 50 turns, I run it for about 13 minutes with the speed of other cars using a 3?T motor. I won't allow the battery to run flat.

作者: scalpel 時間: 2008-2-13 14:26

原帖由 billy86che 於 2008-2-13 14:05 發表

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They are about 700mah, 7.4V so with an appropriately tuned motor of 50 turns, I run it for about 13 minutes with the speed of other cars using a 3?T motor. I won't allow the battery to run flat.

Sounds not bad!

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-13 18:04
Let make it simple, the location and placement of the mount plus positioning on the chassis is not going to be 100% balance/even from left to right even if you think the measurement is right especially it is all DIY. When I said 指向性 off it mean that not all 4 wheel "toe" setting is close 0 degree(pointing stright forward) or even left and right plus "camber angle" is not equal left and right. Maybe it is just because you set it up for one special track, I do not know. All I know is the 4 tire you have on the car is all cut(worn) differently, that mean the car is not balance(same as 指向性 off ). Cars engineer use a lot of time to design and calculate the geometry on how long/short and where to put the control arm(like the bigger car:1/10RC) and where the pivot point is. It is to evenly share the load(weight) and weight transfer of the car. If a new car come out not going stright with no hand steering or tire with abnormal wear after 2-3 month, we call it defect and we have to fix it with precision measurement tools that measure down to 0.01 degree(for all camber/caster/toe).

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-13 18:16
I understand it is a DIY and the original car come out off assemble line, so it is not going to be 100準. I am just saying that in time you may want to remake some part to operate better or even change some design on different parts to make it work better. I just want to encourage you not to stop here, go one step more to make it better and better. I would told you this, since I work with cars, thats why I wouldnt redesign the car like you did, I will worry too much about what all I just said the donno where to start(plus too lazy), I would only go as far as upgrading parts and/or mordifing/trimming parts for better fittment and balance.
To make it simple, good job and keep up the good work.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-13 18:57

原帖由 ckwu 於 2008-2-13 18:04 發表

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Cars engineer use a lot of time to design and calculate the geometry on how long/short and where to put the control arm(like the bigger car:1/10RC) and where the pivot point is. It is to evenly share the load(weight) and weight transfer of the car. If a new car come out not going stright with no hand steering or tire with abnormal wear after 2-3 month, we call it defect and we have to fix it with precision measurement tools that measure down to 0.01 degree(for all camber/caster/toe).

This is a mini-z and the tyres wear every pack of battery. The clearance between the bulkheads and the knuckles of the wheels is more than 1 degree even when the mini-z is brand new, not to mention 0.01. If you really knew a lot about the AWD, you wouldn't have asked in the forum about how to set up a MR015 and an Enzo MR02 somewhere in this forum.

This car is 2 years old and I have been running it at both CT and MMS. I started with the MR01 when it first came to the market and have not stopped playing with the 1/28 till now.

I do whatever I can to make it run faster on tracks, not to make sure that it runs 100% straight nor to seek for the endurance, safety and driving leisure that real cars have to offer.

[ 本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2008-2-13 19:18 編輯 ]

作者: deadmatch 時間: 2008-2-13 21:46
老師的作品真是漂亮，我的新車就快可以見到基本車型了，老師一定要多多指教，教導後輩a。

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-14 07:23

原帖由 deadmatch 於 2008-2-13 21:46 發表

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老師的作品真是漂亮，我的新車就快可以見到基本車型了，老師一定要多多指教，教導後輩a。

do you have more pics, let cc

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-14 07:54

原帖由 billy86che 於 2008-2-13 18:57 發表

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This is a mini-z and the tyres wear every pack of battery. The clearance between the bulkheads and the knuckles of the wheels is more than 1 degree even when the mini-z is brand new, not to mentio ...

I am not going to waist time with you, go out and find a book that talk about real car suspension setup like in option or cars and driver and you will know what I am talking about. My brother always post different question and stuff with this account too. In LA, not many people play 1:28, they all play 1:8 and 1:10, so its hard for me to play/test/set/etc... and I may not know as much about mini z as you do. Don't XXXX question my real car experience when I never question yours with mini z. Time it take to wear down the tire is not going to make that much different, but how it got wear down thats what I am studing with your car. I may not know as much about mini z, but the idea on suspension setting/weight distribution/weight transfer/tire choice is the same doesn't matter 1:1 or 1:100. Thats all I am trying to improvise here.
I do also have desire to build my mini z go as fast as it can, but I just dont have the heart and ambition to as far as you do. I really admire that.

作者: henry888 時間: 2008-2-14 10:01
我地個場係主要clockwise咁行, 右彎多過左彎, 咁正常係左邊d呔去得快d嫁啦
咁真正既race car(real car)如果有咁情況, 係咪會set到佢兩邊平均worn out呢?
但一架車既左右setting唔同, 會唔會影響佢其他方面呢(行直線, 彎心limit....)
咁究竟set到架車既左右磨蝕一樣重要, 定係提高彎中既limit重要呢, 兩者有無關系呢?
小弟突然想到這一大堆問題, 麻煩大家指教下丫
誠心討教

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-14 15:30

原帖由 ckwu 於 2008-2-14 07:54 發表

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I am not going to waist time with you, go out and find a book that talk about real car suspension setup like in option or cars and driver and you will know what I am talking about. My brother always ...

This is a mini-Z forum. I guess there should be many real car forums to post your reply.
You wrote," but the idea on suspension setting/weight distribution/weight transfer/tire choice is the same doesn't matter 1:1 or 1:100."
but I guess scale matters a lot because the proportional speed at corners of the mini-Z is even faster than that of an F1.

Thanks for reminding me to read. I have a habit of reading and I think I'll never stop it until I die. If you really had read enough, you wouldn't have typed "waist" for "waste", "talk about" for "talks about" ...and so on. Perhaps you are the one to read more.

[ 本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2008-2-14 15:41 編輯 ]

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-15 07:40

原帖由 billy86che 於 2008-2-14 15:30 發表

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This is a mini-Z forum. I guess there should be many real car forums to post your reply.
You wrote," but the idea on suspension setting/weight distribution/weight transfer/tire choice is the same ...

THANK YOU for bringing out my typo, I guess I had been in US too long that I don't care too much on spell check rather than try to read and understand what others are writing and put down what I know

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-15 07:54

原帖由 henry888 於 2008-2-14 10:01 發表

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我地個場係主要clockwise咁行, 右彎多過左彎, 咁正常係左邊d呔去得快d嫁啦
咁真正既race car(real car)如果有咁情況, 係咪會set到佢兩邊平均worn out呢?
但一架車既左右setting唔同, 會唔會影響佢其他方面呢(行直線 ...

It is not necessary to have left tire and right tire to worn evenly, but the inner tire wear and outter tire wear will not be that uneven. In racing, they will put free weight closer to front, rear, left, or right to help weight transfer and different toe and camber on each wheel depend on what type of turn it have like clockwise, counter-clockwise, more left turn, more right turn, more sharp turn or wide corner. But if left and right tire are worn the same way and front and rear is worn about the same percentage, then the car is quite balance for that track already. There is no perfect setting for all condition, better turning, then less 行直線.

[ 本帖最後由 ckwu 於 2008-2-15 16:41 編輯 ]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-15 12:48

原帖由 ckwu 於 2008-2-15 07:54 發表

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It is not necessary to have left tire and right tire to worn evenly, but will the to even the inner tire wear and outter tire wear. In racing, they will put free weight closer to front, rear, lef ...

What a mess.

This is not "typo". I'd rather use the term "incomprehensible" (both for the Chinese and native English speakers). I'm happy to chat here but you still have to use a language that people understand.

[ 本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2008-2-15 13:28 編輯 ]

作者: 惡魔 時間: 2008-2-15 12:59
tt01上遙臂??

作者: 腦屍反手呔 時間: 2008-2-15 16:34
整9佰幾樣野咪又係車仔，又2.4 又caster , 咁不如玩十仔喇
玩車唔係咁玩玩都上矖腦最緊要改善下d姿勢同態度

[ 本帖最後由腦屍反手呔於 2008-2-15 16:42 編輯 ]

作者: ANDYMIRIAM 時間: 2008-2-15 16:42

原帖由 腦屍反手呔 於 2008-2-15 16:34 發表

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整9佰幾樣野咪又係車仔，又2.4 又caster , 咁不如玩十仔喇
玩車唔係咁玩玩都上矖腦最緊要改善下d姿勢同態度

玩左1比10就唔洗改~~?????10仔未又係車...！！！！

作者: ckwu 時間: 2008-2-15 16:47

原帖由 腦屍反手呔 於 2008-2-15 16:34 發表

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整9佰幾樣野咪又係車仔，又2.4 又caster , 咁不如玩十仔喇
玩車唔係咁玩玩都上矖腦最緊要改善下d姿勢同態度

agree, but we just have different way to enjoy a hobby and to express our passion.

作者: 腦屍反手呔 時間: 2008-2-15 16:50

原帖由 ckwu 於 2008-2-15 16:47 發表

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agree, but we just have different way to enjoy a hobby and to express our passion.

嗱.........呢d咪就係中肯加大方喇

起碼唔會講兩句就黑面

作者: ANDYMIRIAM 時間: 2008-2-15 17:08
我就真係未試過咁改，好唔好又或者得唔得~我唔清楚~！
不過~我覺得至少佢肯試~！興趣呢D野各有所好鐘意改咪改囉！！！

如果覺得出面PARTS唔乎合自己理想要求或嘗試改善，時間/金錢許可，那自己整都沒有問題吧~！
新科技，新產品都是經過改良及測試出來的~！
勇於嘗試是好事來的~！

作者: 1999 時間: 2008-2-15 23:12

原帖由 腦屍反手呔 於 2008-2-15 17:02 發表

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仲有呀下次唔該用中文喇
你d英文真係好似你0的車咁唔三唔四

唉.......it後面個verb ge s無哂,講到好似中文咁=]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-16 00:11

原帖由 1999 於 2008-2-15 23:12 發表

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唉.......it後面個verb ge s無哂,講到好似中文咁=]

Which "it" do you mean? Did you mix up the two people talking here?

Sometimes we don't add 's' to the verb because it is an 'infinitive'. Such as we say,

"I wish to make it run faster." instead of "I wish to make it runs faster."

because after words like "make" "let" or "see", we should use a "bare infinitive" instead of another verb. You should have learnt all these in form 2 if you studied in Hong Kong.

[ 本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2008-2-16 00:38 編輯 ]

作者: shouldbe 時間: 2008-2-16 01:12
發老皮好似係另有其人喎,

仲有冇品的成份在內.

改車唔係一下子可以成功,有努力才會有進步,有實力就攞你的作品出來吧!

作者: 光丑猶仗凡 時間: 2008-2-16 01:39
題外話

gc8 shell 好正~~

作者: shouldbe 時間: 2008-2-16 01:51
標題: 回復 48# 的帖子
冇品在於你唔得光明正大用自己acc發言,而且不是串錯字,是打錯字居多喎,
anyway,我可能年紀太細乜都唔識,今年只得33歲,芵文又唔識,但我識咩叫"光明正大"囉.
你估你係"奇拿"咩,"你找不到我的"

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-16 01:55

原帖由 shouldbe 於 2008-2-16 01:51 發表

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冇品在於你唔得光明正大用自己acc發言,而且不是串錯字,是打錯字居多喎,
anyway,我可能年紀太細乜都唔識,今年只得33歲,芵文又唔識,但我識咩叫"光明正大"囉.
你估你係"奇拿"咩,"你找不到我的"

算數啦，其實玩吓無妨．

作者: 腦屍反手呔 時間: 2008-2-16 01:57

原帖由 billy86che 於 2008-2-16 01:47 發表

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Another example.

係呀俾人攻擎得happy 唔 happy ? 你攻人就要預番比人攻嫁啦.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2008-2-16 02:02

原帖由 腦屍反手呔 於 2008-2-16 01:57 發表

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係呀俾人攻擎得happy 唔 happy ? 你攻人就要預番比人攻嫁啦.

"俾人攻擊" is not the same as "俾人人身攻擊"．
I guess we are all wasting time here. Let's sleep.

[ 本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2008-2-16 02:04 編輯 ]

作者: shouldbe 時間: 2008-2-16 02:02
其實我都唔係支持邊個邊個,只是見呢位弟兄今天才註冊,覺得好奇才有感而發.
"奇拿"也未必係個壞人,佢也佢的立場,大家各有空間,出嚟玩車重於分享,不重於高低.

作者: typhoon8 時間: 2008-2-16 03:34

原帖由 shouldbe 於 2008-2-16 02:02 發表

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其實我都唔係支持邊個邊個,只是見呢位弟兄今天才註冊,覺得好奇才有感而發.
"奇拿"也未必係個壞人,佢也佢的立場,大家各有空間,出嚟玩車重於分享,不重於高低.

大家各有空間,出嚟玩車重於分享,不重於高低

i support this point!

知識沒有誰最多的.......我不覺得文法上出錯是什麼大問題!

重申我不是要去支持誰人...就事論事,樓主一直被點名....而樓主開post的出發點我估在於善意分享DIY的改裝作品,後來亦有師兄對作品提出個人經驗意見以供改善更好性能的參考,大家應該就當中的分享去吸收一下不是比較有益嗎?又或者可以當成一件作品去觀摩一下!玩rc車原意就是為了樂趣,各人也有各人的玩車風格,有人愛diy,有人愛原廠件;何必要弄到這樣你攻擊我還擊的局面呢,玩wargame可能比較更能發洩啊!

另一點是後來回應的師兄發言過於激進了吧!?,註冊日期:2008-2-15,我想都略知一二是什麼狀況了!網絡可以為人們帶來無限方便,就普及之初網友們都熱烈地努力維持一個有品的烏托邦!但是這位師兄若要論點有力,請先用自己acc吧!自重共勉之!

ps中英文法錯了本來沒大緊要,先要多謝為你指出錯誤的人,這才能從錯中去改正,不懂亦可以去學,人生漫漫長,沒有學不成,只怕不想學!
天生誰都必有用,不擅文法也沒緊要,可能其他方面還會一鳴驚人既呢!

[ 本帖最後由 typhoon8 於 2008-2-16 04:41 編輯 ]

作者: checkie 時間: 2008-2-16 04:43
老實講,明人不做暗事,要講就當面講,我唔係偏幫其中一方,但我覺得開個新account話人無品少少囉,覺得我講錯,歡迎o黎ct 搵我~

作者: henry888 時間: 2008-2-16 08:41
要串人就真係用番自已身份好d
用新acc係好唔負責任既表現wor
討論嫁車仔點解又要人身攻擊呢?

作者: ANDYMIRIAM 時間: 2008-2-16 11:54

原帖由 checkie 於 2008-2-16 04:43 發表

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老實講,明人不做暗事,要講就當面講,我唔係偏幫其中一方,但我覺得開個新account話人無品少少囉,覺得我講錯,歡迎o黎ct 搵我~

原帖由 henry888 於 2008-2-16 08:41 發表

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要串人就真係用番自已身份好d
用新acc係好唔負責任既表現wor
討論嫁車仔點解又要人身攻擊呢?

agree ~~~

作者: shouldbe 時間: 2008-2-16 15:49
to all guys:
工房乃和平有知識之地!希望事件就此擺了.

作者: 1999 時間: 2008-2-16 20:46
tHIS IS EMPTY=]

[ 本帖最後由 1999 於 2008-2-16 22:41 編輯 ]

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