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1:10 F1 vs touring

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21#
 樓主| gtimax 發表於 2010-2-19 23:10:17 | 只看該作者
haha , would you point out which veiw is stupid?
22#
nick7 發表於 2010-2-20 05:51:25 | 只看該作者
f104 3000KV入大場都好鬼快
23#
Vista2007 發表於 2010-2-20 19:48:10 | 只看該作者
I don't think it is stupid in any sense but in fact it is a very good discussion going on here.
If more posts like this and less sarcastic in this forum it will be more readable and informative.
24#
xiang 發表於 2010-2-20 20:09:49 | 只看該作者
I don't think it is stupid in any sense but in fact it is a very good discussion going on here.
If more posts like this and less sarcastic in this forum it will be more readable and informative.
Vista2007 發表於 2010-2-20 19:48


I totally agree Vista2007. Good question and a great, well thought out response from newkid, who actually took the time to explain the reasoning in his response.
25#
 樓主| gtimax 發表於 2010-2-20 23:57:34 | 只看該作者
點解12仔, pro10 可以快過touring 而f1唔得?會唔會f1 車架唔夠好?
好簡單,我以前用f103 leman gt1 殼跑棉呔在egr可以快過touring, 但用f1殼d灣就慢過touring好多好多....
咁問題在那裡? 是否f1殼不夠像真提供不到足夠風壓?
26#
littleboy 發表於 2010-2-21 00:34:08 | 只看該作者
本帖最後由 littleboy 於 2010-2-21 00:35 編輯

一般黎講, F1車的downforce大部分係靠車底 (even 係ban左ground effect之後) ge氣流, 而房車就主要靠車上面ge氣流... 咁我諗呢一方面 rc 有排都未模擬得到...
呢個未必係主因, 但係我諗都值得考慮下...

真實ge房車其實都有d款會用多d車底氣流做downforce, 最睇得出同RC ge 分別就係F430, 好多師兄同埋之前有一個post都講過F430殼非常無grip無downforce....
不過我估in general, 論o係RC vs 真實世界個分別, 點都無F1車咁大....
所以F1車殼個樣造得似, 其實都係得個樣... F1 teams 億億聲咁行個wind tunnel, 仲要keep住全年有update, 當中好多details野應該唔會係我地用幾百蚊買個殼就simulate得到~ 淨係個車底已經唔係果回事...
27#
librayiu 發表於 2010-2-21 00:39:22 | 只看該作者
我試下估下, 會唔會係 F1 車殼o係真車世界既高速下能產生強勁下壓力, 但係 down scale 落去 1:10 之後, 以 rc 車既速度所產生既下壓力並唔係依比例如想像中般強勁?
28#
littleboy 發表於 2010-2-21 00:44:42 | 只看該作者
再講... 而家我地d叫做touring car ge RC, 個設計跟本係正過"縮細十倍ge房車"~
rc touring個車架layout基本上仲racing-oriented過 rc F1個layout咁濟 (我未玩過rc F1, 但我見大部分師兄玩ge F1車架都係唔用尾獨立懸掛ge設計, 前軸個懸掛設計都係相對簡單)

咁多樣唔同, 好似好難用返真實世界個picture去比較咁~
29#
sunday 發表於 2010-2-21 00:54:36 | 只看該作者
if you compare toy car with 1:1,
you will get yourself into a cow horn point ~

well, some topic is " for discuss"," To discuss the discussion of ",
it always get to nowhere.

anyway.... interesting to read some freakish thoery
30#
 樓主| gtimax 發表於 2010-2-21 09:50:46 | 只看該作者
sunday ching可否指點下d後輩?
討論區咪討論下羅!
31#
rcmodel 發表於 2010-2-21 13:08:49 | 只看該作者
ANYBODY試過同一犘打不同車架,係F1快定 /110快
32#
 樓主| gtimax 發表於 2010-2-22 17:46:01 | 只看該作者
it is very hard to tell, F1 way fast on straight, touring fast at corner.....
33#
chiwingedwinlo 發表於 2010-2-22 18:00:00 | 只看該作者
I agree w littleboy c-hing !
34#
 樓主| gtimax 發表於 2010-2-22 21:56:35 | 只看該作者
little boy 的分析一針見血! 討論區就係要有你們先有意思!
相信車架方面好肯定1:10touring比f1好很多,
車殼及風壓又如何?
35#
binary 發表於 2010-2-24 13:57:20 | 只看該作者
This is an interesting topic and I agree with what littleboy said.  I think this discussion can be analysed from various angles.....

1. Engine difference - In 1:1, the difference between a F1 engine and a touring car engine is huge, no matter the touring car is WTCC or DTM, there's no way to compare it with the engine designed for the pinnacle of motorsport - Formula One!  Think about this, nowadays, a F1 engine could only need to last for around 1500km, then it can go to rubbish bin!  During 80s era when turbo engine was allowed, a 1500cc Honda turbo charged F1 engine can produce 1400bhp during qualifying trim!!  But the engine could last for less than 20 laps which its life was purely designed for that qualifying session!!  1:1 touring car will not burn money like this, so 1:1 F1's engine is surely better and faster than touring car.  But in RC, we'll only put on the same motor (say TeamPower 4000kv) to a F1 or touring car, so power-wise, RC F1 has no advantage over RC touring car!

2. Tyre difference - Remember the rule of how to setup a car in motor racing... the first priority should be the tyre, if you get your tyres right, your car setup is 90% there!  In 1:1, F1 tyre produce vast amount of grip, more than what touring car's tyre can produce!  In RC, form and rubber tyres can be used in both RC F1 and touring car, so RC F1 will not have an upper hand in this aspect!  As you all know, Sorex tyres that we used in RC touring car is so good that RC F1 rubber tyre has no way to compare with it!

3. Aerodynamics - 1:1 F1 is specially designed for pure racing, 1:1 touring car has some sort of limitation that it mostly bases on a road-going version although you can add more wings, spoiler to it.  However F1 is basically an aeroplane upside down!!  Tonnes of downforce is generated purely by that super sophisticated rear wing!  Air strategically flows through the car body to produce various downforce by different spoilers, winglets, diffuser, badge board etc.  Touring car is also sophisticated in aerodynamics, but still miles behind a F1 car!  In RC, we must not forget the rule - air doesn't scale!  In 1:1 F1, wings shape is the same as aeroplane but upside down, downforce is generated when air flows faster in the lower part of the wing (due to curved surface) and becomes a low pressure area, upper part of the wing has higher pressure which produces downforce.  Since air doesn't scale, this theory has no (or just little) effect on RC because wings are scaled to 1:10, but air doesn't!  So we'll only see RC car's rear wing is 90 degree and just force the air goes upward to produce downforce.  This is effective to generate downforce as you should feel it when using racing bodies such as Protoform shells' rear wing.  But RC F1 has to maintain its outlook to looks like real F1 car, the wing cannot use those 90 degree wing, those real-looking wing cannot produce downforce for RC F1 car!

4. Weight difference - 1:1 F1 is much lighter than 1:1 touring car (due to race rule), everybody knows that lighter race car is always better, at least from power to weight ratio perspective.  How about RC?  I haven't played RC F1, so I don't know how light it is, but comparing to RC touring car, it could be just a bit lighter, but the weight advantage will not be as huge as in 1:1 F1.

5. Chassis difference - 1:1 F1's chassis is purely designed for racing, designer can forget about practicality, it can be JUST for racing.  But 1:1 touring car is mostly based on road-going version, which has lots of limitation there!  Also, the centre of gravity in 1:1 F1 is much lower than touring car, which enables the car has better handling around corners.  In RC car, since all eyes are on touring car (or buggy) in the market, the RC touring car chassis is more well developed than RC F1, and RC F1 has to maintain it's "real looking" feel to 1:1 F1, so a lot of limitation hinders its performance design!

6. Economic theory - "Value for money", I can't say it is 100% true, but at least 95% true!  How much money invested into developing a 1:1 F1 car?  How much does it cost? It's a billions dollar thing... surely much more expensive than running a 1:1 touring car team!  So, it's reasonable that F1 goes quicker and have a better lap time!  How about RC, it could be the other way around.... consider a high end touring car chassis like 416X, T3, it's well over $3,000, how about a high end RC F1 chassis?  I don't know how much it is, but surely cheaper than this.  Pay more money to have a better thing, reasonable and expected!

My 2 cents.
36#
 樓主| gtimax 發表於 2010-2-25 16:48:10 | 只看該作者
quote"1。發動機的區別 - 在1:1,區別一個 F1引擎和房車的引擎是巨大的,無論房車是房車錦標賽或數字地面模型,沒有辦法比較它與引擎設計的賽車運動的頂峰 - 一級方程式!想一想,現在,一個 F1引擎將只需要為期約一千五公里,那麼它可以去垃圾桶!在80年代時,渦輪增壓發動機,不准一1500cc本田車隊增壓發動機可以在排位賽中產生 1400bhp裝飾!但是,發動機可能會持續不到20圈的生命純粹是設計的排位賽! 1:1房車賽不會燒錢這樣,所以1:1車隊的發動機無疑是更好,更快的比房車賽。但是在鋼筋混凝土中,我們將只放在相同的電機(例如TeamPower 4000kv)到F1或房車,所以,功率計,鋼筋混凝土F1已經沒有優勢了遙控車賽!

2。輪胎的區別 - 記住的規則如何設置一個汽車賽車 ...第一優先應該是輪胎,如果你的輪胎正確,你的車安裝有90%!在1:1,F1的輪胎生產大量的抓地力,更比房車的輪胎會產生!在鋼筋混凝土,形成及橡膠輪胎可用於兩局F1和房車賽,F1將會使區局沒有一個上風,在這方面的!大家都知道,鼩輪胎,我們使用的遙控車賽是太好,區局橡膠輪胎的車隊無法比擬的!

3。空氣動力學 - 1:1 F1是專為純粹的比賽,1:1房車賽有某種限制,它的主要基地,在公路版,但您可以添加更多的翅膀,擾流它。不過 F1的飛機基本上是倒!噸的壓力產生純粹的超精密的尾翼!空軍戰略流經車身下壓力,以生產各種不同的破壞者,翼梢小翼,擴散,徽章板等房車是非常成熟,在空氣動力學,但仍遠遠甩在後面 F1賽車!在區局,我們決不能忘記的規則 - 空氣沒有規模!在1:1,三亞,翅膀的形狀是相同的飛機,但上下顛倒,壓力時產生的空氣流動速度在較低部分翼(由於曲面),成為一個低氣壓區,上半部分的翼較高的壓力產生的下壓力。由於空氣不規模,這種理論還沒有(或只有很少)鋼筋混凝土的影響,因為翅膀縮放為 1:10,但空氣不!因此,我們將只能看到遙控賽車的尾翼是90度和正義的力量去向上的空氣產生壓力。這是對產生壓力,你應該覺得這比賽時使用機構,如Protoform砲彈'尾翼。但遙控 F1已經保持其前景看起來像真正的F1賽車,機翼不能使用這些右翼90度,那些真正的前瞻性翼不能產生下壓力的鋼筋混凝土的F1賽車!

4。重量差異 - 1:1 F1是輕得多1:1房車賽(由於比賽規則),大家都知道,輕賽車總是更好,至少從動力重量比的觀點。怎麼遙控?我還沒有鋼筋混凝土的F1比賽,所以我不知道這是光線,但鋼筋混凝土相比,房車,它可能只是有點輕,但體重優勢將不會像巨大的車隊在1:1。

5。底盤的區別 - 1:1 F1的底盤純粹是為比賽,設計師可以忘記的實用性,它可以是公正的比賽。 1:1房車賽,但主要是基於公路版,它有許多的限制!此外,重心在1:1 F1是遠低於房車,使汽車具有較好的處理轉彎。在遙控車,因為所有的目光都集中在房車(或馬車)在市場上,區局房車底盤更發達的F1比鋼筋混凝土和鋼筋混凝土車隊要保持它的“真正的希望”的感覺,1:1,三亞,所以很多限制,阻礙了其性能設計!

6。經濟理論 - “物有所值”,我不能說這是100%真實,但至少95%的真!多少錢投入開發一個 1:1 F1賽車?多少錢?這是一個數十億美元的事情...昂貴得多,肯定比運行 1:1房車車隊!因此,它的合理的車隊去更快,有更好的圈速!怎麼樣遙控,可以反過來 ....考慮高端房車底盤像416X,北京T3,它遠遠超過 3000美元,怎麼樣一個高端遙控 F1的底盤?我不知道是多少,但肯定比這更便宜。支付更多的錢有更好的東西,合理的和預期!"quote

好多謝binary師兄指點,如果英文ok的網友應十分滿足他的分析, 真係智慧型本色!
37#
 樓主| gtimax 發表於 2010-2-25 16:56:36 | 只看該作者
哩d先係討論! 我地係需要這般有見地的討論!
唔係走出黎鬧d post有幾低b, 你有料就寫d野出黎教下我們d後生, 你睇唔起我地可以唔出聲,但唔駛鬧啦,仲要唔止鬧一次. 如果你做板主可以刪除個post啦,你又唔係.
38#
billgate803 發表於 2010-2-25 18:59:54 | 只看該作者
本帖最後由 billgate803 於 2010-2-25 19:01 編輯

其實1/10TOURING 隻尾翼 "DOWNFORCE設計"~ 如1/1隻尾翼係用同樣形狀是超大下壓力的~

所以1/10TOURING下壓力~ 一定比1/1真車的外殼更大~


1/10的F1隻尾翼 是模仿真車~ 所以下壓力很接近真車~
所以1/10F1的下壓力~ 不會比1/1F1的下壓力大~
而且1/10F1的尾下壓力不勝1/1~ 有很多模型廠商都有出"尾底繞流" ~ 可改善1/10尾下壓力不足問題~
39#
billgate803 發表於 2010-2-25 19:07:33 | 只看該作者
另外車速~
我們的1/10 TOURING  1/10 F1都OVER 60KM/HOUR~

如1/1來比例~ 已去到時速OVER 600KM/HOUR~

1/1 F1現實也不能以RWD的情況下走 600KM/HOUR~

而現實中的GT500 都是RWD~ 由於GT500車體較 F1重~ 所以 GT500 在賽道上不會比F1快~ ~
40#
memberbilly 發表於 2010-2-25 19:10:14 | 只看該作者
哩d先係討論! 我地係需要這般有見地的討論!
唔係走出黎鬧d post有幾低b, 你有料就寫d野出黎教下我們d後生, 你睇唔起我地可以唔出聲,但唔駛鬧啦,仲要唔止鬧一次. 如果你做板主可以刪除個post啦,你又唔係.
gtimax 發表於 2010-2-25 16:56

講得 好        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 自己有料收收埋埋只係走出黎鬧  同一d冇料扮勁亂吹,係冇分別
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